Dave,

We buy bikes because we love the ride. Then as we get flats we put crap into the tires so we don’t get flats. Sealant, liners, the system…etc. Then the wheels with all of this stuff become heavy and unresponsive. The make the bike ride like a ton of bricks and feel dead. Tubeless systems put the smile back on your face. The handling is unbelievable!!! Oh and I know Robb M. has been riding them since they came out. You know as well as I do that Robb doesn’t ride junk or anything that does not work.

From: David Porter [mailto:frogeye@porterscustom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:47 PM
To: Tapley, George L; 'Randall Canfield'; Clay Moseley
Cc: racer's list
Subject: Re: [NMCycling] Tubeless forum

Hmm.. so what ever happened to the old "system" method of an old tire sans the side walls as a liner?
I'm still using it and get maybe one flat per season. That's one tire (your choice), a tube and a worn out clincher... Am I missing something or am I just too cheap to do what everyone else is doing? I don't see the advantage of using a liquid sealant.
dave

On 5/2/2014 6:04 PM, Tapley, George L wrote:

Hmmm!!! My set up was Easton EA70 wheels that are now 4 years old. Stan’s tape 12.00, Stan’s valves 15.99, Stan’s sealant from the jug I had left over from doing my MTB tires 5 or 6 years ago. Hutchinson Sector tires….ebay 122.00 for the pair with free shipping.

Total cost…well not what you have added up…let me see just what I spent on the new supplies well under $160.00.

Priceless to me as they are the best riding tire since the Clement Paris-Roubaix or Vittoria Pave CG tires that I loved back in the early 80’s. Not getting flats has just been a bonus! And yes, I pluck lots of goatheads out of them these days!

You cannot use a folding clincher…it will blow off of the rim…maybe a steel beaded tire if it is a very tight fit on the rim.

From: owner-bike-racers@swcp.com [mailto:owner-bike-racers@swcp.com] On Behalf Of Randall Canfield
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 4:30 PM
To: Clay Moseley
Cc: racer's list
Subject: Re: [NMCycling] Tubeless forum

Yes you are correct and I am as cheap as they come. Alpha Comp wheel set 635.00, Hutchinson Secteur tubless tires 87.99 per tire, stan's valves 15.99. That's 825.00 for the set up. The OP concern was also about goat heads and flats in addition to tubeless.
Just though they might want to here a getto goat head buster set up for price of the tubes and stain's alone.

You can't go 5 miles in this town without pick'n up a goat head.

On 5/2/2014 3:57 PM, Clay Moseley wrote:

Hey Randall,

Your idea is a good one, but it's not really a "tubeless" setup. It is simply a DIY slime tube (or more like a 'sealant' tube, as we've mostly all gone to using sealant like Stan's instead of that green slime), something many of us have been doing for a long time. In the method you describe, you're taking off the little cylindrical valve nut (sometimes requiring filing the valve stem plunger to get off), and filling the tube with sealant while keeping your thumb on the back of the tube to keep the valve stem core from dropping into the tube.

Like I said, it's a good idea, but not the same as a true tubeless setup. There various justifications to just go without the tube. The main thing is the mechanics of the "ride" of the tire, or how the sidewall deforms under pressure and how it affects the tire's contact to the road. This is somewhat different from what the tire does with a tube in it. You can still pinch-flat a sealant tube, and it likely will NOT seal because the lacerations in a pinch flat are just too big to seal.

Also, the tubeless tire setup actually seals much more quickly than a tube with sealant -- much more quickly, in most cases.

The investment for the tubeless setups is not that much, and in the end pays for itself with the fact that you don't have to deal with tubes nearly as much as before. If you're like me, you probably have a bunch of old tubes with a hole or two sitting around collecting dust and dry rotting. I used to be able to give them to the junior kids around here and teach them how to patch them, then they just got to keep them. Now, not that many kids get into cycling, so I've collected more than I want to admit. Anyway, tubeless eliminates a lot of this.

So, to get to my point, you can buy that same tape that Stan's sells for much cheaper -- 3M makes that 1/2" clear weather seal adhesive tape, which is essentially the same thing. There are lots of 3M adhesive tapes that work OK for the purpose, and if you REALLY want it to seal, just make a couple of quick passes over it with a heat gun (don't burn through it, though).

You still gotta buy the tubeless valve stems, though. That is not a big expense. You also have to use a pretty sturdy folding clincher. I don't think a tire with a steel bead would work as tubeless (who uses those anyway?).

The main thing that makes this a "specialty" product, however, is the need to have an air compressor. You just can't get that air surge that you need from a hand pump alone. You gotta have an air compressor and a presta to schrader valve adapter.

On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Randall Canfield <Rcanfield@canfieldinsurance.com> wrote:

DIY

For those of you that don't want to spend a small fortune on rims and tires. I use the standard rim. What ever you now have. My SS has Surly heavy rims and a 28 Gotham tire. I get the cheapest tubes I can buy with long stems. Remove the end nut on the stem valve and pinch the back of the tube when you feel the stem drop in. Hard to explain but easy to do. Probably some thing about it online anyway. Fill it with 2oz of stan's. Shake the stem back out and put the nut back on. Don't put any thing between the tire and the tube. Such as a liner or it won't seal good. (Thanks to Mark Thompson for that tip.) I picked out 2 goat heads this morning and lost only a few lbs before it sealed. I can usually run the same tube for many months and just pick out the goat heads when I see them. I also have a road bike with 25's on Fulcrum rims I commute with no problems. Goat heads are the devil's child....Just say'n.

--
Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 505-352-1378 Go HERE: my world www.porterbikes.com/