Yes, the property was neglected and allowed to "fall into disrepair". But, it was not "dreadful".  It's state of neglect allowed it to be a prime target for squatters and developers, who were lined up waiting for it to go on the block.  We have to make sure that the development is done in a sustainable responsible manner. Yes, vertical development is more sustainable. The developers admission that there is plenty of street parking for the residents is not particularly responsible. 
Anyway, to all monitoring the development, continue to hold the developers accountable and continue to enlighten them to the unique nature of our community.
Cheers,
Sam


On Mon, Jan 27, 2025 at 10:01 AM Michael Mcdonald via Neighbors_nobhill-nm <neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
Thank you Luke

It sounds like the old property was a mess. Squatters, abandoned RVs and cars. It sounds dreadful for the neighbors. This proposed project, in contrast, looks pretty nice and the 1 car per apartment seems pretty minimal. I look forward to seeing it on my walks down silver. Here’s the drawings from the 2022 article. 

Michael


On Jan 24, 2025, at 12:35 PM, Luke J via Neighbors_nobhill-nm <neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com> wrote:

Hi Peter,

The current plans for the development include 42 parking spaces, more than 1 for each unit. Given this development is near major public transit in a walkable neighborhood, it's possible not all tenants will even have a vehicle. The entire east side of Wellesley along the development site has street parking available as well. 

The proposed development is a much better offering than what existed for years: a vacant lot with squatters and crime. And to your point about "there are so many other places this could have been built". Where? A 1 acre property is not common in the Nob Hill area. In a KRQE article a neighbor actually promoted the development: https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/new-housing-development-to-go-up-in-place-of-nearly-100-year-old-compound-in-nob-hill/

We should embrace more density on infill lots such as this development. In a neighborhood that is predominately single family homes, I personally welcome other property types that allow more people the option of living in Nob Hill who many can't afford or don't want a single family home. Remember, these are people that will eat, drink, and shop in the neighborhood and contribute to making Nob Hill what it is.

-Luke 


On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 12:00 PM <neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
Send Neighbors_nobhill-nm mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Neighbors_nobhill-nm Digest, Vol 155, Issue 16 (Peter Smith)
   2. Re: Address of project site? (Catherine Hubbard)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 23:16:52 +0000
From: Peter Smith <barmars2025@outlook.com>
To: "catherine.hubbard@gmail.com" <catherine.hubbard@gmail.com>,
        "ftm3999@gmail.com" <ftm3999@gmail.com>
Cc: "neighbors@nobhill-nm.com" <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>
Subject: [Neighbors] Neighbors_nobhill-nm Digest, Vol 155, Issue 16
Message-ID:
        <CH3PR22MB5449C4D45F997103B315A6EDA5E02@CH3PR22MB5449.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Catherine, I agree you, I do hope the developer keeps the pine trees.  I may also attend the meeting with the developer.

We are saddened that a 40 unit apartment building was designated to be built in our single family residential area (There are so many other places this could have been built).  Where are all the people who visit overnight and drop off food to these 40 units parking?  I know where, in front of the homes and anywhere near that development - that street and the surrounding area will be clogged with cars.  If the developer includes parking, I'm sure it's one space per unit.  So if most units have two or more people in them, this is a parking disaster for people who live around there.  Those people who live around that development just lost a tremendous amount of equity in their homes.  I'm in real estate, no one wants to live or buy next to a 40 unit apartment building.  I really feel for those people who are homeowners in that area because they are about to experience a large negative change in their homes.  I plan to ask the developer about all of these concerns.

Peter

________________________________



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Today's Topics:

   1. Address of project site? (Taylor Maddux)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 11:09:28 -0700
From: Taylor Maddux <ftm3999@gmail.com<mailto:ftm3999@gmail.com>>
To: neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com>
Subject: [Neighbors] Address of project site?
Message-ID:
        <CAOpyK0c9GeOfu_TPUx2SFYF8B+PmnCBkdUC9B7F8SZ=YTLq1cg@mail.gmail.com<mailto:YTLq1cg@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>Rex Cohen...will hold an information meeting
> ... at the project site on Monday, January 27th at 3:00 pm."

Sorry if I missed this, but what is the exact address of the project site?
Thanks.


On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 9:15?AM <
neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com>> wrote:

> Send Neighbors_nobhill-nm mailing list submissions to
>         neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> https://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/neighbors_nobhill-nm
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         neighbors_nobhill-nm-owner@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:neighbors_nobhill-nm-owner@mailman.swcp.com>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Neighbors_nobhill-nm digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Information Meeting with Developer of Apartments, Silver
>       Ave and Wellesley Dr SE (Catherine Hubbard)
>    2. Fwd: University Area Command Newsletter (Daniel Carlos)
>    3. A Warm Thank You & Join Us February 18 for the Next Care Kit
>       Event (Meta Hirschl)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 12:09:13 -0700
> From: Catherine Hubbard <catherine.hubbard@gmail.com<mailto:catherine.hubbard@gmail.com>>
> To: Gary Eyster <meyster1@me.com<mailto:meyster1@me.com>>
> Cc: neighbors <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com<mailto:neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>>, Jackie Fishman
>         <fishman@consensusplanning.com<mailto:fishman@consensusplanning.com>>, Rex Cohen <rexcohen12@gmail.com<mailto:rexcohen12@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Neighbors] Information Meeting with Developer of
>         Apartments, Silver Ave and Wellesley Dr SE
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOVGXpwHhnjJ8+jspp49yyZWLt3iWkyCprUjE3s_LdZBWdztdQ@mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAOVGXpwHhnjJ8%2Bjspp49yyZWLt3iWkyCprUjE3s_LdZBWdztdQ@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Gary - thank you for setting up this meeting and letting the neighbors
> know.  The 40 unit development will have a significant impact in Nob Hill,
> and I welcome new neighbors.
>
> My concern regards the five mature pine trees located between the existing
> property line (delineated by the wall) and the sidewalk along both Silver
> SE and Wellesley SE.  Initially, I would like to see the trees watered,
> then saved and the root zone protected during construction. Trees are
> important to the pedestrian-friendly character of Nob Hill, as well as
> important in mitigating the city's heat island effect.  I understand the
> developer has an interest in landscaping, for which I am grateful.
>
> I look forward to hearing the plans on Monday.
>
> Catherine Hubbard
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 7:06?PM Gary Eyster via Neighbors_nobhill-nm <
> neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com>> wrote:
>
> > Friends and neighbors,
> >
> > Rex Cohen, the developer of this project, will hold an information
> meeting
> > for the community at the project site on Monday, January 27th at 3:00 pm.
> >
> > If you have particular interests or concerns you would like covered
> please
> > reply to all.
> >
> >
> >
> > All are welcome. We are copying Chris Smith of Nob Hill Main Street.
> > Chris, would you please circulate this announcement to the business
> > community?
> >
> >
> >
> > #VivaNobHill
> >
> > *Gary Eyster*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Neighbors_nobhill-nm mailing list
> > Neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:Neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com>
> > https://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/neighbors_nobhill-nm
> > This Message Sent To: catherine.hubbard@gmail.com<mailto:catherine.hubbard@gmail.com>
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 17:01:14 -0700
> From: Daniel Carlos <danielc87106@gmail.com<mailto:danielc87106@gmail.com>>
> To: Nob Hill Neighbor List Serve <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com<mailto:neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>>
> Subject: [Neighbors] Fwd: University Area Command Newsletter
> Message-ID: <75E0459B-3A24-4ABF-937E-E7759A7A0567@gmail.com<mailto:75E0459B-3A24-4ABF-937E-E7759A7A0567@gmail.com>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 06:22:56 -0700
> From: Meta Hirschl <metaji.prajna@gmail.com<mailto:metaji.prajna@gmail.com>>
> To: NobHill Neighbors <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com<mailto:neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>>, TheBoard NobHill-NM
>         <theboard@nobhill-nm.com<mailto:theboard@nobhill-nm.com>>, Anne Callaghan <ATCallaghan@hotmail.com<mailto:ATCallaghan@hotmail.com>
> >,
>         Henri Gattobauer <gattobauer@gmail.com<mailto:gattobauer@gmail.com>>, Dorothy Muna
>         <dorothymuna@gmail.com<mailto:dorothymuna@gmail.com>>, Diane Gutterud <diane.gutterud@gmail.com<mailto:diane.gutterud@gmail.com>
> >,
>         lukecjanik@gmail.com<mailto:lukecjanik@gmail.com>, mrussell@bufex.com<mailto:mrussell@bufex.com>, eschiebel@gmail.com<mailto:eschiebel@gmail.com>,
>         cottonlaura4@gmail.com<mailto:cottonlaura4@gmail.com>, Mary Schmauss <m87106@gmail.com<mailto:m87106@gmail.com>>, Tami
> Wiggins
>         <tami@twmr.us<mailto:tami@twmr.us>>, Metaji Hirschl <metachaya@mac.com<mailto:metachaya@mac.com>>, "Trueblood,
>         Claudia, ENV" <claudia.trueblood@env.nm.gov<mailto:claudia.trueblood@env.nm.gov>>, Dawn Rosignol
>         <revdawn@montevista.org<mailto:revdawn@montevista.org>>, wadams <wadams@cabq.gov<mailto:wadams@cabq.gov>>, Hap Escue
>         <hapescue@aol.com<mailto:hapescue@aol.com>>, Jocelyn Tate <joruta57@yahoo.com<mailto:joruta57@yahoo.com>>, Sydney
>         Lienemann <sydney.lienemann@gmail.com<mailto:sydney.lienemann@gmail.com>>, Gail Chasey
>         <gailchasey@msn.com<mailto:gailchasey@msn.com>>, Gail Lemen <gaillemen45@gmail.com<mailto:gaillemen45@gmail.com>>, Lauri
>         Dickinson <lulu5852@yahoo.com<mailto:lulu5852@yahoo.com>>, Joani Murphy
>         <jladmurphy2002@yahoo.com<mailto:jladmurphy2002@yahoo.com>>, Mary Roark <mvroark419@gmail.com<mailto:mvroark419@gmail.com>>,
>         xjmedina03@gmail.com<mailto:xjmedina03@gmail.com>, Melanie Davis <thartd3@msn.com<mailto:thartd3@msn.com>>,
>         melanieRDavis61@outlook.com<mailto:melanieRDavis61@outlook.com>, "Gary & Melodie Eyster"
>         <meyster1@me.com<mailto:meyster1@me.com>>, nrogers <nrogers@cabq.gov<mailto:nrogers@cabq.gov>>, Marianna Anaya
>         <Marianna.Anaya@gmail.com<mailto:Marianna.Anaya@gmail.com>>, Antoinette <asedillolopez@gmail.com<mailto:asedillolopez@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Villanuevaterry@gmail.com<mailto:Villanuevaterry@gmail.com>
> Subject: [Neighbors] A Warm Thank You & Join Us February 18 for the
>         Next Care Kit Event
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAHrZO7HuhDdVE_MqTJQoCtnGHUi7P3DWQuu8TgeqR0sGCOJkcA@mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAHrZO7HuhDdVE_MqTJQoCtnGHUi7P3DWQuu8TgeqR0sGCOJkcA@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thank you to everyone who contributed and lent a hand assembling the Care
> Kits for the Unhoused this week. What an incredible group of dedicated
> neighbors and friends!
>
> Our next assembly is on February 18th. Here?s the sign-up sheet
> <
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rHQucjgkC4Qf7IIHqCR6DjkHT6HTFOK05JzqOpAVYpo/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> to contribute items for the Care Kits.
>
> We?re also inviting our elected officials to join us for an informal
> conversation about their work and how we can support their efforts.
>
> Looking forward to seeing you in February! Stay warm and keep the faith.
>
> Warmly,
> Meta.
> [image: Screen Shot 2025-01-23 at 1.24.51 AM.png]
>
> Detail from a painting by Rachel Ruysch, featured in the Rijksmuseum
> <https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/bezoek> collection. The Rijksmuseum offers
> fun ways to download and freely use digital images from their
> collection?keeping me warm and inspired
>
> Meta Hirschl
> *There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there
> must never be a time when we fail to protest.* -Elie Wiesel
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Neighbors_nobhill-nm mailing list
> Neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com<mailto:Neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com>
> https://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/neighbors_nobhill-nm
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Neighbors_nobhill-nm Digest, Vol 155, Issue 15
> *****************************************************
>
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Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 18:35:21 -0700
From: Catherine Hubbard <catherine.hubbard@gmail.com>
To: Taylor Maddux <ftm3999@gmail.com>
Cc: neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com
Subject: Re: [Neighbors] Address of project site?
Message-ID:
        <CAOVGXpxtFiet4VC0sVFcsEjJWVJu4NfKFOYG4wNAEaXykztsTw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Taylor - on the TLC submitted, the address for the Wellesley Apartment
project is listed as 208 Wellesley SE.  The current gate to the property is
on Silver SE - I think that's the 3300 block of Silver SE.  It is my
understanding that we'll be meeting close to the corner of
SilverSE/Wellesley SE on Monday at 3:00 to learn more about this
development.

Catherine



On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 11:30?AM Taylor Maddux via Neighbors_nobhill-nm <
neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com> wrote:

>
>
> >Rex Cohen...will hold an information meeting
> > ... at the project site on Monday, January 27th at 3:00 pm."
>
> Sorry if I missed this, but what is the exact address of the project
> site?  Thanks.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 9:15?AM <
> neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
>> Send Neighbors_nobhill-nm mailing list submissions to
>>         neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> https://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/neighbors_nobhill-nm
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         neighbors_nobhill-nm-request@mailman.swcp.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         neighbors_nobhill-nm-owner@mailman.swcp.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Neighbors_nobhill-nm digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Information Meeting with Developer of Apartments, Silver
>>       Ave and Wellesley Dr SE (Catherine Hubbard)
>>    2. Fwd: University Area Command Newsletter (Daniel Carlos)
>>    3. A Warm Thank You & Join Us February 18 for the Next Care Kit
>>       Event (Meta Hirschl)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 12:09:13 -0700
>> From: Catherine Hubbard <catherine.hubbard@gmail.com>
>> To: Gary Eyster <meyster1@me.com>
>> Cc: neighbors <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>, Jackie Fishman
>>         <fishman@consensusplanning.com>, Rex Cohen <rexcohen12@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Neighbors] Information Meeting with Developer of
>>         Apartments, Silver Ave and Wellesley Dr SE
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAOVGXpwHhnjJ8+jspp49yyZWLt3iWkyCprUjE3s_LdZBWdztdQ@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Gary - thank you for setting up this meeting and letting the neighbors
>> know.  The 40 unit development will have a significant impact in Nob Hill,
>> and I welcome new neighbors.
>>
>> My concern regards the five mature pine trees located between the existing
>> property line (delineated by the wall) and the sidewalk along both Silver
>> SE and Wellesley SE.  Initially, I would like to see the trees watered,
>> then saved and the root zone protected during construction. Trees are
>> important to the pedestrian-friendly character of Nob Hill, as well as
>> important in mitigating the city's heat island effect.  I understand the
>> developer has an interest in landscaping, for which I am grateful.
>>
>> I look forward to hearing the plans on Monday.
>>
>> Catherine Hubbard
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 7:06?PM Gary Eyster via Neighbors_nobhill-nm <
>> neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Friends and neighbors,
>> >
>> > Rex Cohen, the developer of this project, will hold an information
>> meeting
>> > for the community at the project site on Monday, January 27th at 3:00
>> pm.
>> >
>> > If you have particular interests or concerns you would like covered
>> please
>> > reply to all.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > All are welcome. We are copying Chris Smith of Nob Hill Main Street.
>> > Chris, would you please circulate this announcement to the business
>> > community?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > #VivaNobHill
>> >
>> > *Gary Eyster*
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Neighbors_nobhill-nm mailing list
>> > Neighbors_nobhill-nm@mailman.swcp.com
>> > https://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/neighbors_nobhill-nm
>> > This Message Sent To: catherine.hubbard@gmail.com
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 17:01:14 -0700
>> From: Daniel Carlos <danielc87106@gmail.com>
>> To: Nob Hill Neighbor List Serve <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>
>> Subject: [Neighbors] Fwd: University Area Command Newsletter
>> Message-ID: <75E0459B-3A24-4ABF-937E-E7759A7A0567@gmail.com>
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>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 06:22:56 -0700
>> From: Meta Hirschl <metaji.prajna@gmail.com>
>> To: NobHill Neighbors <neighbors@nobhill-nm.com>, TheBoard NobHill-NM
>>         <theboard@nobhill-nm.com>, Anne Callaghan <
>> ATCallaghan@hotmail.com>,
>>         Henri Gattobauer <gattobauer@gmail.com>, Dorothy Muna
>>         <dorothymuna@gmail.com>, Diane Gutterud <diane.gutterud@gmail.com
>> >,
>>         lukecjanik@gmail.com, mrussell@bufex.com, eschiebel@gmail.com,
>>         cottonlaura4@gmail.com, Mary Schmauss <m87106@gmail.com>, Tami
>> Wiggins
>>         <tami@twmr.us>, Metaji Hirschl <metachaya@mac.com>, "Trueblood,
>>         Claudia, ENV" <claudia.trueblood@env.nm.gov>, Dawn Rosignol
>>         <revdawn@montevista.org>, wadams <wadams@cabq.gov>, Hap Escue
>>         <hapescue@aol.com>, Jocelyn Tate <joruta57@yahoo.com>, Sydney
>>         Lienemann <sydney.lienemann@gmail.com>, Gail Chasey
>>         <gailchasey@msn.com>, Gail Lemen <gaillemen45@gmail.com>, Lauri
>>         Dickinson <lulu5852@yahoo.com>, Joani Murphy
>>         <jladmurphy2002@yahoo.com>, Mary Roark <mvroark419@gmail.com>,
>>         xjmedina03@gmail.com, Melanie Davis <thartd3@msn.com>,
>>         melanieRDavis61@outlook.com, "Gary & Melodie Eyster"
>>         <meyster1@me.com>, nrogers <nrogers@cabq.gov>, Marianna Anaya
>>         <Marianna.Anaya@gmail.com>, Antoinette <asedillolopez@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Villanuevaterry@gmail.com
>> Subject: [Neighbors] A Warm Thank You & Join Us February 18 for the
>>         Next Care Kit Event
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAHrZO7HuhDdVE_MqTJQoCtnGHUi7P3DWQuu8TgeqR0sGCOJkcA@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Thank you to everyone who contributed and lent a hand assembling the Care
>> Kits for the Unhoused this week. What an incredible group of dedicated
>> neighbors and friends!
>>
>> Our next assembly is on February 18th. Here?s the sign-up sheet
>> <
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rHQucjgkC4Qf7IIHqCR6DjkHT6HTFOK05JzqOpAVYpo/edit?usp=sharing
>> >
>> to contribute items for the Care Kits.
>>
>> We?re also inviting our elected officials to join us for an informal
>> conversation about their work and how we can support their efforts.
>>
>> Looking forward to seeing you in February! Stay warm and keep the faith.
>>
>> Warmly,
>> Meta.
>> [image: Screen Shot 2025-01-23 at 1.24.51 AM.png]
>>
>> Detail from a painting by Rachel Ruysch, featured in the Rijksmuseum
>> <https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/bezoek> collection. The Rijksmuseum offers
>> fun ways to download and freely use digital images from their
>> collection?keeping me warm and inspired
>>
>> Meta Hirschl
>> *There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there
>> must never be a time when we fail to protest.* -Elie Wiesel
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Neighbors_nobhill-nm Digest, Vol 155, Issue 15
>> *****************************************************
>>
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