[LWVNM Action] Ranked choice voting in Georgia's November 2020 election RE: Convention item
Judy Williams
jkwilliams24 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 11 15:02:05 MDT 2021
True, we are not contemplating RCV in partisan elections. Nor are we
contemplating a system like California, which has the top two vote
getters in a lumped-together election winning. I hope we have good
attendance at next Saturday's session on RCV so we can make a considered
decision.
Judy Williams
On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 2:55 PM George Richmond via Action <
action at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
> Again, in Albuquerque City elections, candidates do not run by party. The
> LWV CNM discussion will be relevant for City elections and NOT for State
> elections. Comparing GA Senate Races with Albuquerque City contests is
> like comparing death and child birth.
>
> In the elections for Mayor in Santa Fe and Las Cruces, Ranked Choice
> Voting save voters time and tax payers money.
>
> George Richmond
> On 4/11/2021 2:00 PM, Linda Adcox-Kimmel wrote:
>
> Thank you, Jeanne for this detailed analysis.
>
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 1:36 PM Jeanne Logsdon via Action <
> action at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
>> George and All –
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are the percentages of the votes cast in the November 3, 2020
>> Georgia Senate election:
>>
>> David Perdue (Republican incumbent) 49.73%
>>
>> Jon Ossoff (Democratic candidate) 47.95%
>>
>> Shane Hazel (Libertarian candidate) 2.32%
>>
>>
>>
>> One has to make certain assumptions about how an election would have
>> turned out under different circumstances. If ranked-choice voting had been
>> in place for this election, we need to analyze how the Hazel supporters
>> would have ranked Perdue and Ossoff as their second choice. I believe that
>> a very high percentage of them would have ranked Perdue as their second
>> choice because the Libertarian philosophy (esp. smaller government) is
>> closer to Republican than Democratic values. Therefore, Perdue would have
>> easily won.
>>
>>
>>
>> The November 3 Georgia “special election” to fill Isakson’s Senate seat
>> for 2 years is more complicated because there were over 20 candidates on
>> the ballot. Party primaries were not held to coalesce party support around
>> leading candidates. The initial results were as follows:
>>
>> Raphael Warnock (Democratic candidate) 32.90%
>>
>> Kelly Loeffler (Rep. appointed incumbent) 25.91%
>>
>> Doug Collins (Republican candidate) 19.95%
>>
>> Deborah Jackson (Democratic candidate) 6.68%
>>
>> 6 Democratic candidates with < 3% each 8.89%
>>
>> 4 Republican candidates with < 2% each 3.51%
>>
>> 1
>> Libertarian
>> .72%
>>
>> 1
>> Green
>> .31%
>>
>> 4 Independents
>> 1.21%
>>
>>
>>
>> Predicting the second, third, fourth, etc. choices of the losing
>> candidates is speculative at best. But to simplify, one might assume that
>> the Collins and other Republican supporters would be more likely to select
>> Loeffler as better reflecting their values than Warnock. Similarly, the
>> Jackson and other Democratic supporters would be more likely to prefer
>> Warnock over Loeffler. If so, then the results would have been very close:
>>
>>
>>
>> Loeffler 49.37%
>>
>> Warnock 48.47%
>>
>>
>>
>> If the Libertarian voters go with Loeffler and the Green voters go with
>> Warnock, then Loeffler wins. If we relax thie assumption, then the mixed
>> bag of Independents might have decided the race. But, thankfully, this is
>> all speculation because indeed there was a run-off in January 2021.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have strong misgivings about ranked-choice voting. The results are not
>> going to be the same as from a run-off election, at least some of the time.
>> It will cost more to conduct a run-off election, but I have more confidence
>> that the results accurately reflect the will of the voters.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please let me know of any errors in my calculations. Also I welcome other
>> opinions and perspectives.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeanne
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: All candidate and election data found on Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* George Richmond <geomrich1 at comcast.net>
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 9, 2021 1:48 PM
>> *To:* action at mailman.swcp.com
>> *Cc:* Jeanne Logsdon <jlogsdon at unm.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [LWVNM Action] Convention item
>>
>>
>>
>> * [EXTERNAL]*
>>
>> I must have missed that election in Georgia. Can you ask Jeanne to share
>> more details about how RCV in Georgia would have resulted in a different
>> result.
>>
>> George Richmond
>>
>> On 4/9/2021 10:32 AM, Karen Douglas via Action wrote:
>>
>> LWVNM - Jeanne Logsdon pointed to Rank Choice Voting during the March
>> 2021 CNM Board meeting and indicated that the Georgia Senate race outcome
>> would have been different if Rank Choice Voting was implemented. Although
>> this saves resources, perhaps a more careful review should be considered.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 7:33 AM Barbara Calef via Action <
>> action at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am pasting the relevant portion of the minutes from our March board
>> meeting. I am glad that Meredith brought this up because I was wondering
>> what happened to the meeting Karen W. told us about. I was hoping it would
>> be open to all League members, but have not seen it mentioned since March
>> 6.
>>
>> Barbara
>>
>>
>>
>> *PROPOSED CONCURRENCE WITH LWVVT POSITION ON RANKED-CHOICE VOTING*
>>
>>
>>
>> Delegates to the 2019 LWVNM Convention were asked to adopt the
>> board-recommended statement in the Election Procedures position which read,
>> "Ranked-choice voting [RCV] in all elections" to replace the wording,
>> "Amending the State Constitution to allow run-off elections in the case of
>> non-partisan elections." The delegates rejected this proposal because of a
>> lack of understanding on the issue and the concerns about whether RCV had
>> been successfully implemented in other jurisdictions. The Santa Fe League
>> has asked that the RCV statement be reconsidered at the 2021 Convention.
>> Chris moved that LWVNM adopt the RCV statement in place of the current
>> run-off statement and to include it as a recommended item at the convention
>> in April. Meredith seconded this motion. Chris noted that Common Cause
>> will provide educational materials to League members and that organization
>> has offered to meet with the individual Leagues about the issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Akkana instead suggested using language such as, "an alternative voting
>> system like ranked choice voting" because there are multiple alternative
>> voting systems. Barbara offered Akkana's proposed language as a
>> friendly amendment, which Chris accepted. Dick is concerned about this
>> language change because it suggests we approve every alternative way of
>> voting. Eileen was concerned about amending language from a concurrence
>> with another League and Kathy was concerned that adopting a position from
>> another League does not allow buy-in from the membership until after the
>> fact. Based on these concerns, Chris withdrew her motion.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 8:37 AM Meredith Machen via Action <
>> action at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>> My apologies. In my broken arm and shoulder pain haze, I did not read it
>> carefully. I was remembering the Board discussion on RCV and was thinking
>> it was included in the position revision. Thanks for correcting the record,
>> Chris.
>>
>> Meredith Machen ,
>>
>> mermachen at cybermesa.com
>>
>> 505 577 6337
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Chris Furlanetto <crfrwf at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Meredith,
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to correct your message below.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Program agenda for the LWVNM Convention does not include any Election
>> Procedures position changes regarding ranked choice voting (RCV) or any
>> other methods of counting votes.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is an Election Procedures item on the Convention agenda. This
>> concerns the addition of two Board-approved sub-bullets related to primary
>> election eligibility/party affiliation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please refer to the Spring La Palabra for a description of all the
>> Program items to be voted on. All are recommended by the LWVNM Board.
>>
>>
>>
>> The question of amending the NM Election Procedures position to endorse
>> RCV or to make any other changes to our position about how votes are
>> counted is not on the agenda for Convention as either a recommended or
>> non-recommended item for a vote. Stating that the the state Board approved
>> and supports such an update to our Election Procedures position is
>> incorrect.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let me know of any questions of course. I'll be happy to provide
>> additional information.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 8, 2021, 01:41:52 PM MDT, Meredith Machen via Action <
>> action at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For background on why the state board approved and supports updating our
>> Election Procedures position as presented in the Spring La Palabra Program
>> Report, see below. Plurality voting is a democratic system that requires a
>> majority in order to win while “winner takes all” fails to do that. Thanks
>> for studying the issue. Santa Fe and Las Cruces joined many enlightened
>> governments by instituting ranked choice voting. The Maine uses it for all
>> elections even primaries. Lots of Leagues have done extensive studies and
>> have lobbied for voters to support the change.
>>
>> Meredith Machen
>>
>> mermachen at cybermesa.com
>>
>> 505 577 6337
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From:* Paula Lee <paula.lee at comcast.net>
>> *Date:* April 8, 2021 at 11:27:34 AM EDT
>> *To:* Kayla Vix <KVix at lwv.org>
>> *Cc:* LWV New York - Dare Thompson <darethompson at gmail.com>, LWV
>> Colorado - ED Beth Hendrix <bhendrix at lwvcolorado.org>, Carol Moon
>> Goldberg <cmoongoldberg at lwvc.org>, League of Women Voters State
>> Presidents <lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* *Re: Mt Holyoke professor Douglas J Amy*
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Douglas Amy’s book “Behind the Ballot Box: A Citizens Guide to
>> Election Systems had a great list of criteria
>>
>> California Local Leagues used to evaluate different electoral systems in
>> California’s state study of election systems.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not familiar with ALL his work but Professor Amy has been writing
>> about the problems with U.S. plurality elections for many years.
>>
>> As an alternative to plurality winner take all elections, he argues for
>> proportional representation.
>>
>>
>>
>> After 20 years of LWV state and local electoral reform studies, our LWVUS *Voter
>> Representation and Election Systems*
>>
>> position supports alternatives to plurality voting and supports
>> proportional representation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps it is what motivated Prof. Amy to contact some local leagues
>> rather than “self promotion”?
>>
>>
>>
>> The specific position language can be found in LWVUS publication "Impact
>> on Issues" page 47 and 48
>> https://www.lwv.org/sites/default/files/2020-12/LWV-impact-2020.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> "we support electoral systems that “implement alternatives to plurality
>> voting”
>>
>> and
>>
>> "The League supports electoral systems that elect policy-making
>> bodies–-legislatures, councils, commissions, and boards—that proportionally
>> reflect the people they represent.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Paula Lee
>>
>> LWV Sacramento, CA
>>
>> 916-704-0195 Cell & Text
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S. I found this when I looked up his book *Real Choices/New Voices*:
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a growing realization that many of the problems afflicting
>> American elections can be traced to the electoral system itself, in
>> particular to our winner-take-all approach to electing officials. Douglas
>> Amy demonstrates that switching to proportional representation
>> elections―the voting system used in most other Western democracies, by
>> which officials are elected in large, multimember districts according to
>> the proportion of the vote won by their parties―would enliven democratic
>> political debate, increase voter choice and voter turnout, ensure fair
>> representation for third parties and minorities, eliminate wasted votes and
>> "spoilers," and ultimately produce policies that better reflect the public
>> will. Looking beyond new voting machines and other quick fixes for our
>> electoral predicament, this new edition of *Real Choices/New Voices* offers
>> a timely and imaginative way out of the frustrations of our current system
>> of choosing leaders.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2021, at 7:40 AM, Kayla Vix <KVix at lwv.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I would caution against promoting resources that LWV doesn’t endorse or
>> control. There may be some good content here, but this feels mostly like
>> self-promotion—especially if this person is getting in touch with many
>> Leagues in this way.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Kayla Vix* (she/her)
>> <https://www.lwv.org/league-management/dei-resources/pronoun-and-gender-guidance>
>>
>> Communications Manager
>>
>> League of Women Voters of the United States
>>
>> 1233 20th St NW, Suite 500, Washington, DC 20036
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1233+20th+St+NW,+Suite+500,+Washington,+DC+20036?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 202-809-9668 | kvix at lwv.org
>> lwv.org <https://www.lwv.org/> | Facebook
>> <http://facebook.com/leagueofwomenvoters> | Twitter
>> <http://twitter.com/lwv>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com <
>> lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Dare Thompson
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 5, 2021 5:31 PM
>> *To:* LWV Colorado - ED Beth Hendrix <bhendrix at lwvcolorado.org>
>> *Cc:* Carol Moon Goldberg <cmoongoldberg at lwvc.org>; League of Women
>> Voters State Presidents <lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Mt Holyoke professor Douglas J Amy
>>
>>
>>
>> My local League got the same message and I was impressed by what I saw of
>> his writings and background but we don't endorse even the finest of finest
>> scholars so we couldn't think what to do about his request except maybe to
>> ask him to speak to us. I'm also on the NY state board and haven't heard
>> how we responded if we did.
>>
>>
>> Dare Thompson
>>
>> 36 Reservoir Road, Marlboro, NY 12542
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/36+Reservoir+Road,+Marlboro,+NY+12542?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 845-236-3074 (preferred) 845-591-3445 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 3:10 PM Beth Hendrix <bhendrix at lwvcolorado.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> One of our state Leagues forwarded a message from Dr. Amy, which prompted
>> a bit of background research – he seems legit and a valid resource, we
>> decided – that said, we haven’t contacted him at this point.
>>
>> Best --
>>
>> Beth
>>
>>
>>
>> Beth Hendrix
>>
>> (she/her)
>>
>> Executive Director
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lwvcolorado.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604188254%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yNg9cWzQleMBVyZRUugc21U0CUcrpRm21eNhdqUfjpE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Empowering voters. Defending democracy.
>>
>> Empoderar a los votantes. La defensa de la democracia.
>>
>> 303-863-0437 office
>>
>> 303-588-5470 cell
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com <
>> lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Carol Moon Goldberg
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 5, 2021 12:50 PM
>> *To:* 'League of Women Voters State Presidents' <
>> lwv-state-presidents at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Mt Holyoke professor Douglas J Amy
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> A couple of our local Leagues have been contacted by a retired Mt.
>> Holyoke professor named Douglas J. Amy suggesting that his website be
>> posted on their websites. I believe this is the site
>> https://governmentisgood.com/about.php
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgovernmentisgood.com%2Fabout.php&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604198201%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=GMwNq%2F82BW5CcnZfL6ILriVQpsDfDsoNpZrEwLpglqw%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Government is Good - About this website
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgovernmentisgood.com%2Fabout.php&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604198201%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=GMwNq%2F82BW5CcnZfL6ILriVQpsDfDsoNpZrEwLpglqw%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> About this website. governmentisgood.com
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgovernmentisgood.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604208160%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BrM3B4tu7ZNtpmoPSFfuI8qz4kMaOrPuFEme60rKFRI%3D&reserved=0> –
>> a web project of Douglas J. Amy. I am a Professor of Politics at Mount
>> Holyoke College, where I have taught American politics for over 20 years.
>> My main area of expertise has been electoral system reform, and I have
>> written a number of books including Real Choices, New Voices: How
>> Proportional Representation Elections Could Revitalize American ...
>>
>> governmentisgood.com
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgovernmentisgood.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604208160%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BrM3B4tu7ZNtpmoPSFfuI8qz4kMaOrPuFEme60rKFRI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> He's created a library on proportional representation for FairVote.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you or any of the Leagues in your states had contact with this?
>> What are your opinions of it, if you have any.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>>
>> Carol Moon Goldberg (she, her)
>>
>> President
>>
>> League of Women Voters of California
>>
>> Phone (916) 715-2604
>>
>> cmoongoldberg at lwvc.org
>>
>>
>>
>> www.lwvc.org
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lwvc.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604208160%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=VxBMPuArDu5xWHdtNkwEDrkwEp%2F0%2BrDyFEO046nzgu4%3D&reserved=0>
>> *|* www.cavotes.org
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cavotes.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604218116%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=55AFDvRVG29FUMt%2F5INgMWyqdewJPS9VsDiBPwDU888%3D&reserved=0>
>> *|* www.easyvoterguide.org
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easyvoterguide.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604218116%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=G33ji%2B8ued5DEOcO9%2FfPBtoSZngABRUTQrPZpbliwcA%3D&reserved=0>
>> *|* www.votersedge.org/ca
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.votersedge.org%2Fca&data=04%7C01%7Ckvix%40lwv.org%7C0cc7488acddc45a561fe08d8f87a190c%7C90befbfe6dce4edfba8a35fb67131124%7C1%7C0%7C637532550604228070%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yTBqEcW%2BgpbKZH8NzmLfBZfOZr6pxnV96tCXxy%2FaSGQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>>
>> *Karen M. Douglas*
>>
>> *3rd Vice President/Program*
>>
>> *League of Women Voters of Central New Mexico (LWVCNM) *
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>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/152+Juniper+Hill+Road,+NE+%0D%0A+Albuquerque,+NM+87122-1913?entry=gmail&source=g>
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>> --
>>
>> George M. Richmond
>>
>> 152 Juniper Hill Road, NE <https://www.google.com/maps/search/152+Juniper+Hill+Road,+NE+%0D%0A+Albuquerque,+NM+87122-1913?entry=gmail&source=g>
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>> Albuquerque, NM 87122-1913 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/152+Juniper+Hill+Road,+NE+%0D%0A+Albuquerque,+NM+87122-1913?entry=gmail&source=g>
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> --
> Linda Adcox-Kimmel
> 505.859.9269
> ************
> “The cure for the ills of Democracy is more Democracy.” —ACLU founder Jane
> Addams
>
> --
> George M. Richmond
> 152 Juniper Hill Road, NE
> Albuquerque, NM 87122-1913
>
> C: 505-280-2105
> E: geomrich1 at comcast.net
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