[NMCycling] Seriously?

Tue Apr 26 14:45:15 MDT 2016

Septoplasty. Hm. So, you had, what, 7 of them?

-----Original Message-----
From: Bike-racers [mailto:bike-racers-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Loucks via Bike-racers
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 2:34 PM
To: bike-racers at swcp.com
Subject: Re: [NMCycling] Seriously?

Thanks Benjamin, that's exactly my point.  Philip, my logic is clear and correct.  I did not say "leveling the playing field".  I said "playing the level field".  Which are exactly the opposite.

This has nothing to do with a 'normal' athlete cheating to improve his performance.  Not in the least.  It's a poor schmuck who is physically defective and under medical care.  I would gladly race with him and welcome him to the community.  Years ago I had a septoplasty so I could breath better.  Did that effect my performance on the bicycle.  Yes, arguably so.  It brought me up to equivalence with all the others in the field who's nasal passages had not been damaged in prior accidents.

--Cliff

-------- Original Message --------
 From: Benjamin George via Bike-racers <bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com>
To: microbiojavi at aol.com
Cc: "bike-racers at swcp.com" <bike-racers at swcp.com>, Cliff Loucks <Cliff at csloucks.net>
Reply-To: Benjamin George <benjaminjgeorge at gmail.com>

When doctors bring patients up to normal testosterone levels there is little to no advantage as you are just normal.  

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 12:51 PM, microbiojavi--- via Bike-racers <bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:

> Race Clean.  Race Safe.
>
> _Javier_
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samuel Medina via Bike-racers <bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com>
> To: philip neis <philipneis at hotmail.com>
> Cc: bike-racers <bike-racers at swcp.com>; Cliff Loucks 
> <Cliff at CSLoucks.net>
> Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2016 12:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [NMCycling] Seriously?
>
> The "level playing field" argument is invalid. Taking any performance 
> enhancing drugs to win a race is racing like a coward. Doping is wrong 
> and immoral. End of story. Hats off to those who race clean!
>
> Samuel Medina
>
> > On Apr 26, 2016, at 12:40, philip neis via Bike-racers
> <bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
> >
> > By this logic if they are all doping it's a "level playing field". 
> If you have a medical condition that prevents you from legally 
> competing in a sport you should not be competing in the sport. Pretty 
> sure Lance and all the other dopers from that era already used the 
> "level playing field" argument.
> >
> >> On Apr 26, 2016, at 11:08 AM, Cliff Loucks via Bike-racers
> <bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yea, but in Teeple's case, they made him prove he's naturally
> deficient so the supplement would bring him up to a normal level. 
> Saying it another way, they are allowing him to level the playing 
> field
> - just the other around. Let's call it playing the level field? The 
> article doesn't say anything about a middle of the pack requirement in 
> his case. That said. How many people have the resources to pay out of 
> pocket for an MRI? You'd have to give up the next bike purchase. I'm 
> sure there is more to Teeple's case than the article mentions. Based 
> on the facts it presents, I think the exemption is warranted.
> >>
> >> And That's The Way It Is,
> >> --Walter
> >>
> >>
> >> Many of you probably have no clue who I just quoted.
> >> --Cliff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 26 2016 10:35 AM, Paul Sery via Bike-racers wrote:
> >>> I can't prove it but will promise to slam on my brakes the next
> time
> >>> I'm about to win if given my TUE.
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016, Warsa, James S via Bike-racers wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ah, but that's what's funny. You can get only get the TUE if you 
> >>>> prove you aren't going to win. How the hell do you *prove*
> something
> >>>> like that anyway?
> >>>>
> >>>> Interpreting that quote from USADA literally, though, it seems
> that
> >>>> any placing other than first is okay. So I'd say cover yourself
> in
> >>>> patches.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jim Warsa
> >>>> Transport Methods Section
> >>>> Computational Physics and Methods Group, CCS-2 Computer, 
> >>>> Computational and Statistical Sciences Division Los Alamos 
> >>>> National Laboratory
> >>>> 505-667-0214 [1]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________________
> >>>> From: John Savickas <John at Savickas.com>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 9:46 AM
> >>>> To: Warsa, James S; bike-racers at swcp.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: [NMCycling] Seriously?
> >>>>
> >>>> Hum, "Got Low T?" Side effects of taking Low T medication
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Winning more races!
> >>>> 2. PR at age 60 for Record Challenge!
> >>>>
> >>>> USADA isn't broadcasting the news - Not anymore. Word is out!
> >>>>
> >>>> Race results will have to have an *. *rider on Low T medication
> >>>>
> >>>> Instructions say use one patch a day... What if I use 2 or 3?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Bike-racers [mailto:bike-racers-bounces at mailman.swcp.com]
> On Behalf Of
> >>>> Warsa, James S via Bike-racers
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 8:01 AM
> >>>> To: bike-racers at swcp.com
> >>>> Subject: [NMCycling] Seriously?
> >>>>
> >>>> Unbelievable. Almost. The best part is someone can dope if they
> "prove to
> >>>> USADA that he or she is unlikely to actually win one of these
> amateur
> >>>> races".
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/prescription-steroids-get-a-quiet-exemptio
> n-1461
> [2]
> >>>> 365753
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jim Warsa
> >>>> Transport Methods Section
> >>>> Computational Physics and Methods Group, CCS-2 Computer,
> Computational and
> >>>> Statistical Sciences Division Los Alamos National Laboratory
> >>>> 505-667-0214 [1]
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Bike-racers mailing list
> >>>> Bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com
> >>>> http://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bike-racers [3]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Bike-racers mailing list
> >>>> Bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com
> >>>> http://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bike-racers [3]
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Bike-racers mailing list
> >>> Bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com
> >>> http://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bike-racers [3]
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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-- 

_~Benjamin J. George_

Links:
------
[1] tel:505-667-0214
[2]
http://www.wsj.com/articles/prescription-steroids-get-a-quiet-exemption-1461
[3] http://mailman.swcp.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bike-racers

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