[NMCycling] FWIW

Fri Jul 24 17:05:22 MDT 2020

Well summarized, John and John. No need to go into more detail about the
importance of the masks. However, I would like to make one final
observation on the issue at hand. It appears that there can be arguments
that sound reasonable from a medical perspective about the effectiveness,
or lack thereof in using masks. But these arguments are mute. Whether we
can prove that masks actually work does not really matter at this point.
What  we do know is this: Regardless of whether or not there is a cause
(not using masks)  and effect (virus transmission is increased)
relationship here that is empirically proven does not really matter. What
we do know is that there is a strong correlation between using masks and
social distancing, that clearly demonstrates that these strategies have
slowed the spread in most countries. Unfortunately, the U.S. has
politicized the pandemic, and this is very sad.  in Italy where I never
discuss politics or religion with my friends and family, most italians have
cooperated with the protocols and this has really helped. My friends there
tell me that they are still wearing masks on a regular basis, including
when cycling, even though things have improved substantially, at least
where my family is from.. There is no reason not to wear a mask in public.
We don't have to prove or disprove their effectiveness, scientifically.
They work, and that's all we need to know for now.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 4:30 PM M. John Jordan via Bike-racers <
bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:

> Guess it's a good thing that J. Vance is wearing his mask/gaiter since he
> is a little snot and that is what the common mask/gaiters are supposed to
> stop.  Thinking ahead John, and well done!
>
> I got about thirty minutes into the video just to make sure I wasn't
> missing anything.  I was amazed at the tone deafness of her (Tammy
> whatever) "explanation", as she was dismissive of folks like Dr.s Fauci and
> Birx as being single points of expertise, all the while talking about her
> single point of expertise as being the one person that everyone should
> listen to.  Conspiracy theorists must surely love her! She does have
> knowledge and experience with masks and their use, but I am not sure that I
> would agree that she is a noted and experienced pandemic expert, as someone
> like, say, Dr. Fauci is. Masks and careful social distancing are the only
> things reasonably proven as having a positive effect on stopping the spread
> of the virus.  Getting the spread rate down is the only thing (other than a
> proven and applied vaccine) that is going to make us feel safe to get back
> out there and mingle.  I do agree with her that the masks and gaiters that
> we are talking about wearing aren't good enough to stop an actual single
> viral particle, but to my limited understanding we don't tend to blow out
> individual viral particles, we blow out larger particles of mucous and
> sweat and the like that contain the virus particles.  Catching enough of
> these larger particles is key to lowering the viral load of a random
> exposure, say passing another cyclist or pedestrian.  Wearing one is a
> reasonable, short-term effort to help in lowering the larger spread of this
> frickin' thing.  Oh, side note, I think wearing one also shows that you
> care about your fellow citizens health, not the worst message to send.
>
> As for the gaiter, I have one similar to John's (just another one from
> Amazon) and I decided to put it to the test by a longish 32 mile ITT on the
> Bosque trail last week, a 30 mile MTB ride in the Oak Flat area last
> Sunday, and a 32 mile/2900ft ascent ride yesterday (humid!) in the
> foothills "finger" climbs.  Never had a problem until I went up Hidden
> Valley Rd, then up Deer Trail Place w/no zig-zagging. Definitely zone 5 for
> me!  The amount of sweat on the gaiter did cause me to be inhaling actual
> water (sweat?  ewww!) so I did push it down.  Bonus, btw, on both the MTB
> and hard RR, when you start heading back down, you get one excellent
> cooling effect.  Second bonus on the MTB ride, no bugs/debris/dust, which
> usually causes me to have coughing fits several times in each ride.  I am
> probably going to adopt this as a piece of technical riding gear at least
> through bug season!
>
> Oh, and I heard on FB that this Tammy person is the love child of Dr.
> Fauci and Dr. Birx and that she just wants to shame them because she
> couldn't figure out how to become an actual doctor.  I can't prove it, but
> it must be true since it was on the interwebs. Just sayin'!
>
> M. John Jordan (mjohnjordan at yahoo.com)
>
>
> On Friday, July 24, 2020, 10:38:19 AM MDT, Mark Leisher via Bike-racers <
> bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
>
> She starts with a false assumption at 11:30 and I assume she goes on to
> build a case based on that false assumption. No point in watching any more.
>
> No supporting links or references. It's pure argument from authority, a
> common form of fallacious argument.
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 9:25 AM John Vance via Bike-racers <
> bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not going to watch a 50 minute video of idiocy from some nobody who
> knows nothing, posted by a nobody who knows nothing.
> .
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 7:15 AM David P via Bike-racers <
> bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/100002578331008/videos/3134938159935431/UzpfSTEwODUzNjI4OTQ6MTAyMTYzODIyNDY4MDM4MzY/
>
>
>
> On 7/15/2020 11:41 AM, Chris Kelley via Bike-racers wrote:
>
> I’ll be reviewing the following and report back once they arrive:
> the State Street Bike Masks
>
> https://www.statebicycle.com/products/state-bicycle-co-smiles-for-miles-face-mask-3-pack
> Buff Mask
> https://www.buffusa.com/shop-buff/masks-category.html
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 12:38 Geoff via Bike-racers <
> bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
> Chandler. Thanks for sharing your experience.  I ordered a few different
> masks that were recommenced by Bicycling Magazine.  I’ll share my
> experience after riding with them.
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Chandler Spears via Bike-racers <
> bike-racers at mailman.swcp.com> wrote:
>
> For those interested in constructive dialogue on the matter, I had great
> success this morning using a Coolmax neck gaitor. When I’m riding alone not
> within sight of anyone, I drop the gaiter below my chin. As I approach
> someone, say 20-30 yards back, I pull it up over my nose and mouth. Once
> clear by the same distance, down it goes again. As an aside, from my 2-hour
> ride this morning, which suffers some sample bias for sure, my method seems
> to be preferred. Most cyclists, hikers and runners were doing the exact
> same thing.
>
> Chandler Spears
> Portfolio Manager
> Davis Selected Advisers, L.P.
> 505.820.3033
> cspears at dsaco.com
>
>
>
>
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